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0:03
Welcome to our open house. Instead of examining hardwood floors, closet space, and kitchen layouts, we're taking you on a tour of what's happening across today's mortgage industry. During each episode, we'll hear from industry leaders and subject matter experts to give us an inside look into a hot topic, Cuttingedge technology, or new trend that can help accelerate your digital journey. Thank you for joining us. Come on in.

0:26
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Ïã¸ÛÁùºÏ²Ê¿ª½±½á¹û Open House Podcast. My name is Michaela Rosenthal, Senior Marketing Manager here at Ice Mortgage Technology. I'm extremely excited to introduce to you our Woman in Mortgage technology series. In partnership with Shred Media, we are spotlighting the women leaders who are pioneering advancements in mortgage technology and driving our industry forward.

0:53
In our first episode, Josh Pitts from Shred Media sat down with Stephanie Derflinger and Marcy Davis from Ice Mortgage Technology and talked about technology's role in the housing industry, creating stability in an evolving market and embracing innovation with customers needs in mind. Without further ado, let's listen to this engaging and exciting conversation.

1:17
What is up? Good morning ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Shred show. Why I cannot tell you the excitement, the joy, the enthusiasm I have this morning. I've got two incredible new friends that I'm hanging out with this morning that literally we're going to be starting a new the our debut of women in mortgage technology. And this is going to be one of those episodes. This is going to be one of those conversations that truly changes your life That starts to in.

1:47
Light in your mind in ways that you would have never thought before. In partnership with ICE, we launch the Women of Mortgage Technology. And these women, these are leaders who are pioneering our and the advancement in mortgage tech. This is one of those things that that gets me pumped up. You can see it every time I get on the show and I have something like this. I can't tell you how excited I am. I have got Stephanie Derflinger, SVP of Product Strategy and Marcy Davis, VP of Product Management and today.

2:15
We're talking roles in the housing industry, creating stability in an evolving market and embracing innovation with the customer needs in mind. Also, every single one of us in our industry can truly help the consumer, can help our customers achieve that dream of home ownership, because that is what we know it's all about. Ladies and gentlemen, Are you ready? Are you ready? It is time to shred.

2:53
Morning ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to The Shred Show Live. As I mentioned in my introduction, I have got Stephanie and Marcie.

3:00
With me from Ïã¸ÛÁùºÏ²Ê¿ª½±½á¹û this morning and this is I truly meant it when I said it. This is going to be one of those conversations that truly is just earth shattering Plus this is our debut which I cannot tell you this every once in a while we have opportunities provided, provided to us that just change the outlook of everything that we're doing and women in mortgage technology is one of those things.

3:25
That I am just so excited for. So, Marcy, Stephanie, good morning. Good afternoon. We're depending on where you're at and welcome to the Shred Show. Good morning. Good morning. Thanks for having us. I'll tell you, I feel like I should have had like a 5 Hour Energy real quick before the heck of an intro you've got going on there, Josh. Hey, that is. You know what? If that's all I can bring to this conversation, we're gonna get some energy. We're gonna get some excitement around it and we're gonna get into it because both of you, both of you ladies have had an incredible.

3:53
I mean, just an amazing career as I, as we've discussed, as I've learned and kind of done some research about each of you, it is just it really. Sometimes we as an industry, we do not shed the light. We don't talk about incredible women like yourselves enough. And that's what this, this entire series is about, is talking about those who contribute in ways that we just may not even understand. And both of you have had these careers in our industry that I'm just like, wow.

4:20
So this conversation today is going to be absolutely amazing. But before we get in to the meat and the potatoes, the things that I talked about as that we're going to discuss today, I want to get to know you ladies a little bit better. Like I said, you have, you have brilliant careers in this industry. So let's get to know each and every or both of you a little bit better. Stephanie, let's start with you. Tell us a little bit what got you started and what drew you to the industry and what's what's kept you here. What drew me to the industry was a scholarship from Bank of America. That's what drew me the industry.

4:48
Yeah. And I was a branch manager, you know, of a bank. And there was this lady that worked at the, the mortgage Corp, they called it, you know, we did, we did consumer lending and things. She did these mortgage loans and people were always coming in and looking so darn happy when they were leaving, you know, and I would watch the Closings from my office. I could see from there. And I just, I wanted to know more. So I asked her and this is like old days like I'm, you know, I'm ancient. So we're talking like fax machines and and and well, I don't even know if you have fax machines. Anyway, point is.

5:17
I asked her if I could copy her files for her because I just wanted to know what it is that she was doing. So I started learning just documents by copying closing files, closing packages and and kind of getting away. And then I did all sorts of different lending, commercial lending and and and warehouse lending and in the warehouse lending space. That's where I really got the opportunity to get into literally hundreds of shops, maybe thousands of shops and and understand how they operated and their financials and all that just and.

5:47
Who wouldn't love to be a part of an industry that helps people live in homes, right? They they obtain their homes, they use it. Their largest financial investment home is where the heart is. You know, you've got all that. And every day we go to work, we get to help contribute to the American dream. And if that isn't worth going to work every day, I don't know what is.

6:11
Oh my gosh. And that that is literally it helping people achieve that dream. We always talk about it in high school, You know you grow up, you buy a home or hopefully you can buy a home that's that's achieving the dream of of a home ownership here in America. It's amazing. So that's so much fun. I again, that's why I love those stories. Starting out is you know just basically an assistant if you will starting copying like just learning the industry. It's A and now look where you're at see those are the amazing stories. Marcy what about yourself? Tell us what drew you to this industry and what what's kept you here?

6:39
So I started my career in 1992 to talk about dating us, Stephanie, working for a a mortgage technology vendor that I actually still have the pleasure of working with today. They're one of our partners on our partner network and in the eight years that I was with them, talk about the power of innovation, we went from shipping our software on floppy disks to working with lenders on direct integrations.

7:08
I then went on to work for a publicly traded mortgage lender. I was with them for 17 years and led their Information Technology group. We were Encompass users, which is what led me to ICE. I've been here almost five years and by far it has been the best experience in my role of leading the product strategy for our TPO product.

7:36
Our partner network, which includes Investor Connect and then more recently our secondary capital market solutions. I have had the opportunity to collaborate with some of the largest banks, correspondent investors, wholesale lenders and partners in the country and I get to work with some of the most talented teammates here at ICE every day. It took us two years, two years to talk Marcian to coming over.

8:05
See, but all all good things take time. He's like, you know what, We're just gonna keep working with their little by little. It's so much fun to hear where people start in the industry because like all none of us expected to be in this. We were little kids. We were like going to high school saying, yeah, I want to be a mortgage perfect. Like I want to be in the mortgage industry. That sounds like a lot of fun. This is going to just be so much fun as we get older. But it has.

8:26
Both of you mentioned how rewarding it's been and what we get to do the partners, the collaborations, what we get to build is that dream of homeownership that like that's what really, that's what keeps us all coming back. Because we all know if it weren't for that factor, we'd probably be like there's there's something else I can find better to do than than what we're doing here. But I wanna, I want to start this conversation kind of along those lines and Stephanie, in regards to working?

8:51
Better Together to collaborating. I wanna and actually sorry I wanna actually start with Marcy here. Sorry Stephanie, but Marcy I wanna start with you on this one in particular because as we work, as we collaborate from the borrower experience to post closing, there's a lot of opportunity to continue to improve I guess to maybe streamline processes for our customers. But how do you guys, how does ICE really partner with the customers and different leaders, let's not just say partners but leaders to decide?

9:18
Where to focus cuz there's a lot of distractions. I always talk about the shiny object, but where do you, how do we focus on the right things? How do you really understand and know what's gonna help Dr. Innovation and make the most impact with us right now? How do you do that? So we have strong relationships with our customers and so we are constantly collaborating with them so we know what is important and top of mind for them and this collaboration and partnership really occurs through.

9:47
Many means you know we will go on site and observe workflow. We have monthly and quarterly strategy meetings. We have user groups where we walk through specific features and obtain feedback and really even discuss prioritization. In some of these user group sessions we'll host some smaller round table discussions for targeted topics.

10:12
We have group meetings with just executives, you know, back to your leadership group. So we'll we'll meet with executives, with CIO's, with correspondent investors, with our partners and we'll review our strategies. But more importantly, we get to hear from them in these sessions. We obviously attend a lot of industry conferences and oh, but the best forum of all is our own conference experience, right where we bring everybody together.

10:42
To collaborate. And so the information we gather from all of these sessions is really what you know helps us identify and and stay focused on what's most impactful to our customers. I love that you mentioned most impactful because I talked about this with Jonas and and Joe actually at the event at Experience, we're kind of coming out of that post COVID world and experience in particular was one of those events that.

11:08
We attend a ton of events, but the feeling of collaboration, of teamwork, of truly serving and helping one another, It was an event like no other, and it really was. You could see the collaboration more than ever. And I think that's what it is on that same kind of that same, no. But it twisted a little bit. How do you know what not to focus on? What? Like how? How is it like, yeah, no, we're getting a little distracted here. How is it you decide on the, you know, maybe this isn't.

11:36
I guess critical to achieving the mission right now. How do you make those decisions? Do you want me to take that Mars or are you taking that? Go ahead, Okay. So for me, anyway, I think it's really all about making sure you keep focused on what the value is that you're trying to deliver. What is it we're trying to deliver and keep recentering on that value because there's plenty of rabbit holes you can go down, no doubt, and there's a lot of shiny things you can chase after, but.

12:01
Constantly going back to the value that you're trying to deliver, I think that really keeps people centered and constantly evaluating that value, making sure that it still resonates as time goes on. You know, you might have to make adjustments to what it looks like, but if you keep focused on that, you're more likely to get as close to that with little distraction. And then I think the other thing is you have to, you have to be able to say no to things and that's not easy to do.

12:28
Right. So sometimes the answer is this isn't the right thing to do right now. It's not no forever, but it's no for now. And here's why. And helping folks kind of come to terms with that is also part of that okay. So now, Marcie, I want your kind of your feedback on that because I know I'm sure we've all been like.

12:46
Gone down that road of we don't all agree. Imagine that we're human beings, we don't agree on the same thing. So I mean tell us has ever been like a situation where maybe there's been a difference or conflict of perspectives, How do you approach a project like that? So we do know that every lender tends to do things a little differently than the next, so we know how important that flexibility is, so.

13:12
When there are conflicting perspectives on specifically features, you know our standard approach is always to focus on solutions that really offer lenders and our customers that flexibility through configuration. And again often we'll go to our collaborative user groups to obtain feedback and so you know, I think also when there is.

13:37
You know, when lenders are not on the same page in these collaborative user groups, then you really validates the need for where that flexibility needs to come in, right? Because everybody tends again to do things just a little differently. And on top of that, the the you want people to disagree. If everybody's in the room agreeing on how something should be done, you probably don't have the right people in the room.

14:01
You need to have a variety of opinions. I mean the same thing whether we're talking about our, you know, lenders or our title agents or any of our you know, constituency who's giving us feedback, those folks. But even internally just amongst our product organization, we need to have different viewpoints and we need to bring it all out there so that we can come to the best collective, you know, end result. And as Marcy said, that comes in three flavors. I mean we we serve a broad spectrum. We have thousands of customers.

14:29
We have folks that lenders that are closing 10 loans a month, some that are just brokers, some that are closing thousand loans a month, settlement agents. You have all different people in our ecosystem that use our services. And what we need to do for them is to identify, you know what is it that we should put in a base product and to Marcy's point, what should be configurable, you know, so that they can make choices on how they want to bring it to market with their business and then.

14:53
And also an API suite that allows them complete flexibility. So if they choose to just do it completely different than we've thought through it that their solution still will accommodate what they'd like to

do. There's a lot, there's so many pieces of that I wanna unpack, but I wanna ask this one in particular kind of along these same lines.

15:12
Is because you know this industry in particular, it can be slow to change. Like it. Absolutely. Like we've seen that trouble. We've all been in this industry long enough that it can be very, very slow and sometimes even people's pride can get in the way. So how do you get to to get everybody like I love what you said there, Stephanie, you know if you don't have the right people in the room, they're not asking the right questions. But how do you get them on the same page? How how eventually do you bring them together?

15:38
I think that you start by. So I'll just give an example with our product organization and I know Marcy, you have a really good example of how you've done this in the past. So I'll just briefly do it and then Marcy maybe talk about yours. But really what we start with is just the brainstorming what what should it look like? And then you know you can collectively eliminate some things from there. And not everybody's going to agree with that in solution. So you take as much as you can. You try to hit as many of the points that you want to hit with the value that you're trying to deliver and then the.

16:08
The thing about this is, like in a product organization, you don't all have to agree, but we should be able to have a sensitivity to, here's a rationale, here's why we're going to do this and here's how we're going to address the concern you have or here's why we're not going to address the concern we have. And so you give plenty of room for all of that discussion and thought leadership and processing to come through. You come out with an end result on that.

16:32
And you know, once the team has come to an end result, whether you individually think it was the best approach or not, we expected, you know, jump on board with that. And it's a little bit different when you're talking about our lender community, but that's where we offer the flexibility for them to choose differently. But you know, when we're trying to get all those different perspectives into the room, generally we end up with a much better product than we ever would have had if everybody was, you know, holding hands and singing songs.

17:00
Marcy, what are your thoughts on this? How cuz that is, I absolutely agree with that 70. Marcy kind of add your your two cents, your thoughts on this how how do we get everybody on the same page, how do we embrace change. So I'm gonna take it from the lenders perspective and you know when Stephanie and I were talking what came to mind for me was you know I remember when we introduced going paperless early on with the lender that I was at.

17:28
And how difficult that change was for some. So I remember, you know, some of our seasoned underwriters were still printing out the documents. That's what they preferred. That's what they were used to in creating individual loan folders. And it wasn't really, you know, until, you know, we showed them the value of of the transformation and that we showed them, you know, how we were able to measure that effectiveness.

17:58
That they were able to then turn around and embrace that. So again, as other users were, we were able to measure their effectiveness. Then they got behind the change. So again, it's all about constant communication and training and really just emphasizing the value of why you're making a change.

18:16
And I think this is one of those and that's where I want to start taking this because as we're talking about change, adapting and keeping up with change is one of those things that it's always in the back of our mind. But I say this a lot, the one constant in our industry is change. It like it's always change, it's always evolving and we have to adapt with this and stepping let's let's kind of move into that a little bit because both of you have kind of alluded to it a little bit here. We both kind of hinted on it. But I want to give some some tips, some advice if you will being able to adapt to constant change because the mortgage market.

18:46
All of us know this has, has always has these cyclical cycles always. Again all of us have been in in the industry long enough and we see this and especially the last couple of years in particular has just stepped it up a notch that none of us were expecting. So what advice do you have for mortgage lenders in particular that can quickly help them adapt to the change that's happening and and hopefully avoid some of those things in the industry. I'd say that the changes of hearts and minds.

19:13
Conversation. So you know he's talking about need to show the value to the underwriters and and having them adopt A paperless environment. It's a hearts and minds deal. So if you're in the position of you know being a part of the technology team at a lender shop and you're trying to get your folks to use new technology. You know Marcy's approach would be the right thing to do. Help them see the value in that and and try to get their buy in on it and move forward if you're the.

19:39
Person who's having to deal with the change that might be a little bit of a different story and I think the the best thing because it because it is going to change, things will change. So if you can think of it from being a part of a solution as opposed to being part of the opposition that might help you individually because you're going to suffer through the change. It might help you get to the best result of what that change can be And it's it's attitude really about how you approach changes and and.

20:08
You know where you choose to give pushback and and feedback. What's the difference? Am I giving pushback or am I giving quality feedback. You know if you're that end user that's subject to this change and look for the value you know help help identify what the value is. You know, I I can see that I can do this better or this is is this costing me a little bit so can we adjust it. But this this is this I just say Marcy, I know you want to build it because this is one of those things in particular that.

20:36
It's not just about tech anymore. There's so much, it goes so much deeper. Marcy, I was just gonna add to what Stephanie was saying that that is why another reason why we focus so much on flexibility and why it is so important. You know, when market changes and we know they occur, lenders can quickly adapt and expand their loan programs, adjust their processes all through configuration.

21:00
You know, and I would also really encourage our lenders to go out to our marketplace to review all the partners that are integrated into our network. You know, we're constantly adding new partners and you know this provides lenders the ability to see how they can further streamline their processes with additional automation and innovation that's being provided by our partners.

21:25
I was gonna say that is a great point. All it seems like ice always kind of has their their eye on the ball if you will and kind of seeing and spotting the innovation and before I want to get into that here in just a second, but I want both of your your feedback on this before we go into that just spotting these opportunities because both of you have mentioned this and I think this this runs so, so deep and both of you embodies who you are as we.

21:49
Evolve as an industry. Technology is huge. I mean is mortgage technology always plays a critical role in the technology piece, but there's more with investing in people and in cultures. How much do you think that is like critical to the evolution of our industry outside of just technology? What is it culture, is it education of employees, new processes? What else plays a critical role in the evolution of our industry? Let's start with let's go with Stephanie and then go Marcy. OK. So culture is huge on.

22:19
In any industry, I don't think that's specific to our industry, but a culture that allows for folks to speak their truth in in what they're doing and and help evolve you know and and better what's going on. Too many times people are just stuck in a routine that just has always been that way and there's not a lot of questioning that goes on. So how can we advance our industry, you know, questioning what we're doing and why we're doing it. It's a fantastic way to have start the conversation that can evolve the industry.

22:47
I think education is always of value. I think that the more folks are sensitized to the other parts of the ecosystem around them, then the the more that they see in what they're doing, you know, the more they can question and give good feedback. And you know, when we're all doing that, then we're able to, you know, come together and streamline things that otherwise we might not have thought of stuck in our own silo.

23:17
Oh, March is just like boom, that's it. Yeah, perfectly said culture training. It's culture is such a big play in any organization. To the success of it. I think culture is and it's finally being talked about. It's kind of been one of those things in the background, but it's starting to come to to light within our industry in particular talking about the cultures, talking about the diversity. I mean why we're doing this and talking about the incredible women in mortgage technology, it is creating a culture of.

23:43
Of change and creating this, this idea and creating these beliefs that together, together we can achieve great things. So I want to go back to a comment that you made the Marcy and I I want to kind of focus on innovation and both of you have hit on this and I said it, there's a lot of shiny objects out there, a lot of shiny objects within technology in particular.

24:02
How do you spot opportunities? Again, you ladies have a knowledge, you have seen a lot within the

industry, but how do you actually spot those opportunities for innovation that are truly gonna have an impact and be valuable to ICE partners? So I would say that we're always working and looking for innovations that are going to streamline.

24:24
You know our processes whether it's through our own automation such as our automated service ordering or analyzers or task based workflow or by providing the innovation through our partner community. I mentioned that earlier, you know we have thousands of partners on our network and we like I said continue to add new partners every month. So we've added actually like 67 new partners in just the last 12 months.

24:54
So by continuously adding new partners, you know we're sitting in their sessions, It's just amazing what our partners are doing. You know we're able to provide our clients, you know that easy access to leverage these partners that are integrated into our system and again evolve their automation. And Stephanie touched on this earlier about the APIs, You know in addition to all the automation that we have within our lending platform and our partner network.

25:21
We also believe in our API first strategy, which again enables our lenders to build their own innovations and solutions, proprietary features and embed them directly into our platform or their instance of our platform. You know Josh, on the strategy side of it, I'm just going to pick up from there and talk a little bit about the strategy side of the two. On the strategy side, the technology follows. That isn't actually the important part to begin with.

25:50
On the strategy side, we're looking at Escape to the PUP, where do we think that the industry needs to be and where do we think it's going to be and how are we going to help the industry get there? And then that's the first question. And then the second question is how can our technology support that and what do we need to do to help the industry head that direction. So you know it's it's not actually sometimes a technology question, it's a, it's an industry question and then how does the technology help us get there.

26:18
I think that's a lot of it because again to both of your points here, ISIS done this incredible job bringing everything. We talk about efficiencies, we talk about innovation. ISIS as created from from the API connections to the different partners that are integrated within the system. We all talk about these efficiencies, but it's bringing them together in one place. So you can also you can have so that our consumers ultimately can have that experience of buying this home, but it can be enjoyable. So having those innovations, having those technologies all in one place is absolutely critical and to your point here I want to.

26:48
Build on this a little bit, Stephanie, because I think there's a little bit more to it cuz I know ICE in particular you guys talk about making the connection and connecting people to opportunity. Explain that, what does that actually mean for mortgage technology? Well, I'll tell you that we have a large continuum in the industry, right? There's obviously the consumer portion, there's the manufacturing, there's a secondary market, there's the servicing, there's the capital markets and so making the connection means.

27:16
Bringing all of those constituents together, it's title agents, it's insurance agents, it's lenders, borrowers, brokers, you know, all on the front end of the business. But then as you move into the secondary market after manufacturing, it's now investors and it's the agencies and it's the services And there's a, there's a large constituency there that we have the opportunity to, you know, help bridge.

27:41
All of that together. And so at the beginning of it maybe where you know the connection is, you know borrower to lender and then it's lender, but you can see how that would go. Now making the connection is the first part of it and then the second part of it is how that connection adds value to the entire ecosystem. So things like you know the the trusted data and the validated documents from the time the consumer is first engaging or thinking about.

28:08
Wanting to buy a home, Realtors, all all of those stakeholders there and all the way through having that data and those trusted documents as part of that adds so much value on the back end of the industry which creates liquidity adding more value to the front end. So it's, you know it's this big cycle, it's this big ecosystem that we can positively impact.

28:28
Wouldn't we do a good job of making those connections and doing it with technology that reduces friction and just creates the stream of good data and validated documents all the way through the process and get it perfectly said? See, look at that. I mean, holy cow, we're just like.

28:49
I want to talk about this real quick cuz that was making connections that that human interaction is something that technology sometimes we miss that piece of it technology is there to aid us to help us in that and Marcy I I want I would love your kind of thoughts and and feelings on this is technology it's not there to replace us it's there to be our support is there to be our friend, right. Absolutely. You know again going back to my lender days I remember when we came out with our.

29:16
Automated underwriting system and how concerned you know the underwriting folks were that it was going to replace it didn't. It just actually allowed them to do more with the technology. And so you know again it's it's it's there to help and does not replace the people. To be able to replace the people never you have to have a brain and a computer you know it's.

29:42
It's what we program it to do do it, but it's what we program it to do. So you, you got to have the brain in there. I love this. And this has been one of those conversations that there's been so much that has been so incredibly valuable, insightful, impactful for myself, for everybody listening. And as we start to wrap this up, I I want to kind of end on this just because again, both of you women are incredibly talented and brilliant.

30:06
And you bring so much of this conversation and right now in our industry, there's a lot of fear, there's a lot of doom and gloom. I mean margin oppression rates going up. There's just a lot of there's a scarcity mindset. And both of you with your

something, what's some advice, some strategies, a tip that you would give somebody to bring hope to bring say hey, you know we're, we're okay, we can do this together, our partnerships what, what advice or help can you share right now with the industry? Marcia, let's start with you.

30:35
You know the advice is you know again we are we partner with our community. So and we I mean look at our, we've been here 30 years I think Stephanie you know each so we always come out stronger you know So again it's being able to adapt and and being nimble and and again we do this all day long partnering with our customers to see how we can help them. So it again reach out to us if if there's any.

31:05
Help that we can provide in in these uncertain times 71 about yourself, what's something some joy, some hope you can give to our watchers and listeners today. Well, I'll tell you we are a cyclical industry. What goes up, comes down, goes down, goes up. We have seen that time and time again and there are there are times of famine but there's also times of feast. And so I think where possible and I know it's very difficult with.

31:31
Margins, compression and and all the circumstances we're facing right now, I get it. But if we can spend some of our energy on the long game and we can think about because this is going to turn, it's going to change it. You know it's a matter of when not if how can we prepare and I'll give you an example of that. You know right now in in our customer base we're hearing a lot of folks that are wanting to take advantage of you know offering key locks for example.

31:57
Two years ago we deployed the technology. We fully support key locks. No one knows that because who cares. Two years ago that we were doing that right, but we were doing that because things change and we want to be ready, we want our customers to be ready to take advantage with the technology when those times change. So that that's our strategy, that's how we think about what we're putting into our Rd. maps and so I would encourage you know lenders to to.

32:23
To do the same thing, to think about what that long game looks like and make whatever adjustments. Today. You know, today we're thin, right? And so today the conversation is, how can I do more with less? But tomorrow it is the same conversation. The conversation is going to be how can I do more with more? You know, it's not different when you're in a famine. You people are stressed because they can't, you know they don't have the volume. When you're in a feast, people are stressed because they can't get the work done. But the solution is the same thing.

32:53
The solution is to have that technology a there and available so that you can scale, you know, up and down. So you know, I would encourage folks to try to look at the long game, know it's cyclical, it will come back up and you know make those short term investments to get through it with the eye on the prize in the end.

33:14
I don't even know what they're like. That's a mic drop that was like a holy cows like Marcy, Stephanie, this has been such an insightful and impactful conversation for myself, for everybody listening ladies and gentlemen, go back and listen to those last few minutes from both Marcy and Stephanie because we can do this together. To Marcy's point, to Stephanie's point, it just takes, this is a longterm game. Anybody who's been doing this for any amount of time, it takes.

33:37
It's not going to end tomorrow, ladies and gentlemen. We we promise. Just keep at it. Keep hustling. Together, we can achieve so many things. We just have to trust each other. Ladies, this is absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much, Stephanie and Marcy. This has been it. Just an incredible conversation. And next month we're going to be working with ICE to bring another incredible conversation just to make sure you tune in. Then, as always, we appreciate you. We love you. Now it's time for all of you to go show up, hustle, repeat every day. See you.